Wednesday

What Your Therapist Hasn't Told You About Using Insurance

(I have updated this post to reflect the changes to managed care in my area since 2010)


By Unsplash
Once upon a time, I started out as an idealistic new therapist. My work with a non-profit as well as my heart told me that mental health care shouldn't be a privilege for only the wealthy. 

And so I decided to accept insurance, hoping it would help ease the burden of cost for those seeking therapy. And I tried. I really did. Even when I was spending hours on hold (to get payment I had already been promised). Even when I had to write off payment I was owed because it was costing me too much time to pursue it. Even when I was full of private pay clients.

It was a bitter pill to swallow, but I had to admit it: I could no longer afford to be in-network for insurance But I learned a lot of things along the way. Things consumers don't know. Things that I would want to know if I were you. And so I'm here to tell you the

Things I wish all clients knew before/when they are using insurance-approved therapists.

1. Your therapist has to diagnose you to get you reimbursed.

Insurance doesn't reimburse for "marriage therapy" or "I'm having a hard time" or even "grief". It is a medical model, and so this means that payment can only be for a diagnosis. This means that (even in family therapy) a person has to receive a label. And these labels will be part of your official record permanently. This might never matter to you. If you are one of the fortunate ones who has medical, life and disability benefits through your employer... you might never worry about this. But if you're someone who might ever be unemployed, self-employed, or need to purchase your own benefits- a mental health diagnosis can make the difference between preferred coverage or none at all.

2. Your records are not protected.

Your insurer can audit your records at any time they wish. This means any details that your therapist might not have included in the paperwork (perhaps for good reason) is technically open to the eyes of any "claims specialist" the company hires. Again, this might not matter to you. But if you hold high clearance for a job, or have other reasons you want your information to be held confidential- this is important to know.

3. Your care is dictated by the insurer

Most insurance requires some sort of treatment plan to be submitted by in-network providers. This means that (rather than giving you the care that best fits your needs) the therapist is responsible to the (non-mental health professional) claims representative for how you spend your time. To put it simply, an in-network therapist works for the insurance company, not you. It doesn't matter what you and your therapist decide is in your best interest, it needs to fit their matrix of decisions. It also has to fit within the allotted sessions which are determined ahead of time, not based on need.

4. Insurance almost never pays the full fee

This means you are either going to be responsible for the remainder (which you need to clarify ahead of time) or it means your therapist is working for less than a fair market wage. Which leads me to my final, and most unpopoular point.

5. Insurance limits your options

I have said it before, to an angry response. I cringe even as I type. But the truth is: I know very few licensed and experienced therapist on insurance panels.  I have been in this profession over a decade and supervised over 25 interns on their path to licensure. I can count on one hand the number of therapists who I would recommend that are on insurance panels.

That is a dirty secret. I'm not supposed to say that. Therapists don't like that, because it is a sad commentary on the availability of quality mental healthcare. Consumers don't like that because it is obviously unfair. But it is accurate in my area. And so you need to know, that choosing to utilize an insurance-approved therapist means your options will be severely limited.

So what can you do about it? There are options!

1. If possible, pay cash for sessions. 

This ensures that your records and diagnoses are entirely confidential documents. The content of your session stays entirely between you and your therapist. And your care is dictated by what you think you need, not your insurer. Many people have a Health Savings Account (HSA) that will help them pay for sessions and operates just like cash- but they don't realize it.

2. If you cannot afford to do that, consider a non-profit (like the one I co-direct)

Many areas have nonprofits that offer low fee counseling based on income or other eligibility. That takes a little digging, but often you can find it on google by looking for "low fee" or "affordable" or "nonprofit" counseling. You will likely see less experienced clinicians, but you will maintain control and confidentiality.

3. If you need to bill insurance, but have a PPO, attempt to pay for therapy up front and submit for reimbursement.

 This will cost you up front, and your diagnosis will be recorded, but it gives you the freedom to choose any licensed clinician and their records are more protected than if you go with an in-network therapist. Here's an article I wrote about how to do that.

4. If you absolutely must bill insurance and see an in-network therapist, do your due-diligence ahead of time. 

If they are in-network with your insurer, they should have an idea of what level of transparency your insurer expects. They likely know if their notes will be requested, if their treatment plans will be required, and what diagnoses they will need to give you for coverage. Asking ahead of time can help you decide how you want to proceed.

This news does not feel good to report. I don't like the way it is. I hope for a world where quality mental health care is available to everyone that wants it. But if I were you, I would want to know. And I believe in the golden rule. I think consumers deserve to know the nitty gritty details. In fact, I think educated consumers are our best shot at system change. And so... there it is.

Hoping for a change,

187 comments:

  1. Hey Krysta--

    Thanks for a well-informed article. I've recently been toying with the idea to withdraw from the insurance panels b/c of the headache and time suck.

    I feel bad doing this, as I've often said that people who have insurance for mental health benefits are not the cause--it's their managed care company.

    Then I had a thought of "well, it's not like they cannot go anywhere else for therapy."

    This day may come sooner than expected:).

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    24. Hello I'm Smith Walter..i have been looking forward for a real and genuine loan company,Until i met Mr Eric who give at loan offer business loan, personal loan, home loan, auto loan,student loan, debt consolidation loan e.t.c i did believe so i search on Internet i met lady testify how Mr Eric help her with loan so i contact the lady and she introduce me to Mr. Eric who promised to help me and indeed he did as he promised without any form of delay.I never thought there are still reliable loan lenders, Mr.Eric who are indeed helped people with the loan and changed my belief still reliable lenders out there, the person of Mr Eric You can contact him with these email:ericloanfinance@hotmail.com Please do pass these news after you may have receive your own loan Mr Eric is genius loan lender. blog/site http://gofishtalk.com/profiles/blogs/urgent-loan

      Delete
  2. Hi Krysta,
    I am an MFT in Las Vegas who has never accepted insurance and I have been in practice for 9 years. I include info on my website about my reasons for not accepting insurance and how this benefits the client, but I am really impressed w/ how you write about it in this article. I am including a link to your article, credited to you, on my website - for additional reading for my clients.

    Wishing you all the best,
    Lourdes A Viado
    www.lviadotherapy.com

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hello everyone i'm Ryan Damian by name, from USA.... i am here to share this message of greatness to only those who will seize the opportunity life will offer to become somebody great and actualize their dreams.so happy I got mine from Mr Clifford. My blank ATM card can withdraw 5000 dollars daily. I got it from Him last week and now I have 50000 dollars monthly. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mr.Clifford because i met two people before him and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Mr Clifford sent the card through UPS Express Delivery Shipment, and i got it in 4 days. Get your own card from him now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,he is giving it out to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught.Start living your big dreams, living that large and comfortable life that you always wised for, contact email: worldwideblankatmhackers@yahoo.com

      Delete
    2. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com!!!!!

      Delete
    3. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

      Delete
    4. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

      Delete
    5. PLEASE READ!!
      Hey Guys!!!I am Henry i live in Texas USA, Am so happy I got mine from Annie. My blank ATM card can withdraw $3,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $9,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it because it is blank just your PIN will be on it , it is not traceable and now i have money for business,shopping and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really glad and happy i met Annie because i met Five persons before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Annie sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her right now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the Blank ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught or traced . im happy and grateful to Annie because she changed my story all of a sudden .The card works in all countries that is the good news Annie's email address is anniemellor233@yahoo.com,,.

      Delete
  3. Krysta,
    I find that several of your views reflect a failure to grasp how people are struggling in other parts of the country. I am also offended by your accusation that therapists will give appointment slots to full-pay clients over insurance clients, and your insinuation that if a therapist is worth her salt she does not have to accept insurance. I had a full psychotherapy practice in San Francisco for several years and was able to stay off insurance panels. However, when I relocated to the northeast corner of Connecticut, where the economy has not recovered from the 2008 debacle and many people are still losing their homes to foreclosure because they can't pay their bills, I discovered that it is impossible for a clinician to avoid accepting insurance. In order for people to obtain the therapy they need, they must use their insurance. Otherwise, they would have to go without. You may want to reconsider the position that you posit as the "absolute truth."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for taking the time to comment. I appreciate your perspective. I urge you to re-read what I stated: "Those who are full with clients do not need to go through the headache of managed care. So they don't. The ones who are not full are more motivated to jump the hoops" I believe you illustrated that very clearly in your personal practice.

      Similarly, I am located near San Francisco, CA. I cannot speak for the rest of the country. My intent was never to speak for the "other parts of the country". I am not a national spokesfigure... only a local therapist in practice. ;) Obviously insurance, billing, and licensure issues are very state specific. It might be very informative for you to be able to offer your own blog post, specific to your region of Conn. as it sounds very different from here.

      For instance, what I see more and more often here is that insurance offers very little reimbursement for therapy (if at all) and so the hoop jumping does not garner much help for the client in the end. It's too bad really. Things are changing quickly these days though, so perhaps that will change too.

      Again, thanks for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts. I wish you well!

      Delete
    2. People expect therapists to sacrifice for other people. In reality, it is difficult to make a living on the money that insurances reimburse and waiting to be reimbursed. Therapists deserve to be paid. We don't expect a plumber, electrician, doctor, etc. to reduce fees. Many of us paid a significant amount of money for education and still pay student loans, office rent, license fees, liability insurance etc. So I am offended when other people, especially therapists, comment about people who choose to not take insurance. I actually do take insurance but would like to be cash based due to too often not getting paid on time.
      Other therapists should be able to understand that having a practice is a business so why shouldn't we be treated as other professionals who choose how to run their business. We are probably one of the few professions who are frowned upon if they want to make a decent living. If a client stiffs us, we are encouraged to let it go. What other profession is told to do this. I have worked in this field for twenty years and feel that there needs to be more respect of the profession.

      Delete
    3. People expect therapists to sacrifice for other people. In reality, it is difficult to make a living on the money that insurances reimburse and waiting to be reimbursed. Therapists deserve to be paid. We don't expect a plumber, electrician, doctor, etc. to reduce fees. Many of us paid a significant amount of money for education and still pay student loans, office rent, license fees, liability insurance etc. So I am offended when other people, especially therapists, comment about people who choose to not take insurance. I actually do take insurance but would like to be cash based due to too often not getting paid on time.
      Other therapists should be able to understand that having a practice is a business so why shouldn't we be treated as other professionals who choose how to run their business. We are probably one of the few professions who are frowned upon if they want to make a decent living. If a client stiffs us, we are encouraged to let it go. What other profession is told to do this. I have worked in this field for twenty years and feel that there needs to be more respect of the profession.

      Delete
    4. Hello everyone i'm Ryan Damian by name, from USA.... i am here to share this message of greatness to only those who will seize the opportunity life will offer to become somebody great and actualize their dreams.so happy I got mine from Mr Clifford. My blank ATM card can withdraw 5000 dollars daily. I got it from Him last week and now I have 50000 dollars monthly. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mr.Clifford because i met two people before him and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Mr Clifford sent the card through UPS Express Delivery Shipment, and i got it in 4 days. Get your own card from him now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,he is giving it out to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught.Start living your big dreams, living that large and comfortable life that you always wised for, contact email: worldwideblankatmhackers@yahoo.com

      Delete

    5. BE SMART AND BECOME RICH IN LESS THAN 3DAYS....It all depends on how fast you can be to get the new PROGRAMMED blank ATM card that is capable of hacking into any ATM machine,anywhere in the world. I got to know about this BLANK ATM CARD when I was searching for job online about a month ago..It has really changed my life for good and now I can say I'm rich and I can never be poor again. The least money I get in a day with it is about $50,000.(fifty thousand USD) Every now and then I keeping pumping money into my account. Though is illegal,there is no risk of being caught ,because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable,it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTVs to detect you..For details on how to get yours today, email the hackers on : ( mrbeckhamblankatmcard@gmail.com) ......................//.

      Delete
    6. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com!!!!!

      Delete
    7. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

      Delete
    8. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

      Delete
  4. Wow! I read this and was completely dismayed and surprised by your recommendations and justifications. Speaking from a client perspective here, if I saw something like this on your website, I would RUN to find someone else, not because of the insurance complaints, but because of your utter lack of understanding of a patient's point of view. If you don't want to deal with the payments and hassle of insurance, don't accept it. Plain and simple. But to put this burden on clients or to suggest that they won't get quality care from someone who DOES take insurance is both egotistical and lacking in compassion...two qualities I wouldn't look for in a therapist. I would know this is all about the money, not about care. So why DID you decide to become a counselor in the first place?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for taking the time to give feedback. I realize that my candor is not everyone's taste. Like I said, "I would want to know! I think you deserve to know!" But that doesn't mean I'm right for you.

      The good news is: I'm nobody! Just a therapist working in a private practice in a state that has a terrible managed care problem. I don't speak for the whole of therapist-dom. And that's good because maybe that means there are therapists who don't share my disillusionment. (I want to be them!)

      In any case, hopefully my tone in this article conveyed the great depth of my thought and care towards my clients and the managed-care-conundrum. It is heartbreaking!

      Delete
    2. I don't see why people would get upset at her for stating reality. That's all it is, really. Not her fault.

      Delete
    3. Agree, anon, she's just stating the truth. Much of what she says also says applies to psychiatrists, too. Something I would have appreciated knowing before seeing one who wound up making me very sick. I had to learn the hard way that the better ones tend not to take insurance and many of those who do take insurance do so because they are not good enough providers to make it otherwise. Don't shoot the messenger

      Delete
    4. WHAT A WONDERFUL LOTTERY SPELL, I'M TRULY BLESSED BY DR.ZULU SPELL TEMPLE WHICH HELPED ME TO WIN A LOTTERY AMOUNT OF (£14,509,500.00). ALL THANKS TO HIM FOR CHANGING MY STORY. HE CAN ALSO CHANGE YOURS OR YOUR UGLY SITUATION IN JUST AN HOUR, CONTACT HIM VIA EMAIL::::ZULUSPELLTEMPLE@YAHOO.COM::::WHATSAPP NUMBER:::+2347067468416

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      Delete
    5. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

      Delete
    6. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

      Delete
  5. Hi Darcy,

    I read your article because I'm curious about how reimbursement is going for MFTs. (I will be deciding between an MSW and an MFT.) I appreciate your perspective. Thank you for taking the time to write the article and for leaving it up.

    Sincerely,
    Brigitta

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good for you for taking the time to research before deciding between the MSW and MFT. And now, we have the LPCC added to the mix!

      As far as insurance reimbursement goes, I believe it's all the same for the moment. Of course, politics can always change that. In fact, if they had made the grandfathering easier I would have double licensed myself as an LPCC and MFT just to cover my bases. But alas, they decided on a large amount of education units that made it not feasible.

      Starting from scratch, you have a lot of interesting options ahead! Best of luck to you!

      Delete
    2. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

      Delete
  6. Hi Krysta,

    Thank you for taking the time to write about your perspective and share it. At one time, MFTs had a hard time with being covered for services; MSWs had it easier. I was just taking a look at that, as I will be deciding on my master's studies down the road.

    I'm glad you shared how the decision to accept & process insurance affected the quality of your life. Making a living, having time to be healthy, and having time to live a balanced life are very important. I, for one, would highly respect a therapist who is a model of self-care and doesn't try to be a martyr.

    BTW, you practice in my old stomping grounds - Roseville, CA. I've moved to colder climes in British Columbia, Canada. Roseville sunshine sure does sound inviting right now!

    Thanks again!
    BB

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh I hope you're staying warm! We have had plenty of sunshine to go around lately. I'm told it is too much- now we have a drought. But I sure do enjoy it.

      Good luck in your future studies! Thanks for the encouragement. :)

      Delete
  7. I love your candor. All therapists who are somewhat business savvy-think like this-you are just open to sharing it. I think you ARE compassionate to inform people how it all works so they can make the best decision. If someone doesn't like the truth about how the system really works and think that the better you get at your profession you should still make the same as someone starting out then-then probably don't have a true understanding of giving and taking AND business in general. Your perspective is refreshing. Love it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for your feedback LD. I appreciate the encouragement :)

      Delete
    2. Hi Krysta,

      I am a cash-only therapist in NC. Surely there are differences between my local area and yours, given my very different part of the country, but despite that there is so much you've said here that resonates with me! I have been called foolish, stupid, willfully blind, and many other things by others who have criticized my decision to not contract with insurance. I have been feeling very lonely and isolated in the local therapy community as a result. Most of my colleagues say of insurance, "it isn't hard, it just takes a few minutes" and yet these same colleagues continually complain of paperwork woes. Your viewpoint is immensely validating for me and I wanted to thank you for putting this article out there. It has helped me to feel much better about my slowly growing practice. I'm 25 and fresh out of school (graduated just one year ago), and being new I am of course making plenty of mistakes. That said, I have been adamantly against signing any contracts with managed care companies. It just feels bad to me and seems like a tactic that many other therapists do to ensure financial security. The problem is the huge and many costs associated with taking insurance. Like you, I only bill out of network insurance at this time. I just give my clients a receipt and instructions on how to send in their receipts.

      Thank you for encouraging me! This is just what I needed at this time.

      Delete
    3. Josh- I am so glad it was encouraging to you. I love hearing from those who are newer in the profession. I feel it is so important to encourage one another. :)

      Something that has worked exceptionally well for me- I pay for myclientsplus (online website) where I am able to submit insurance receipts electronically for free (the website is a flat monthly fee). All I do is make sure to note that my client paid me in full, and the insurer will reimburse the client any money that is owed them. This has been a good compromise for my clients who wish to receive insurance money. It makes it easier on them than submitting a paper insurance bill. And it works for me, because any discrepancies in payment become their responsibility to follow up.

      Plus, all my client info is available from any internet connection for me... so I can get phone numbers and addresses even from my home should I need them. Something to think about! Most of my clients don't bother billing insurance, but for the few who do still need to- this helps them not get overwhelmed by the process- and it's instant for me. I don't have to do any additional work really (other than initially putting in their insurance card info).

      Best wishes in your new practice! It is really amazing work!

      There must be some differences between states in this case- we can't bill insurance until licensed (usually takes 2-5 years post graduate education)... so I'm interested in your process and what that entails? It sounds different!

      Delete
    4. Thank you SO much for your candor. I'm just about to start my internship in a counseling program and have a lot to think about in terms of making money down the road. I just sent this article to myself. I appreciate you leaving it up!!!

      Delete
    5. Thanks Serena for commenting and encouraging me :) Best wishes on your internship!

      Delete
  8. Krysta,

    Thanks for the wonderful recommendation on the myclientsplus. I will admit, the site looks very barebones and not the most "polished" or "attractive", but I am considering a 30-day free trial. I would love to list you as a referral person so that you get some credit for referring me.

    With regard to your question about insurance, let me clarify! I cannot bill insurance. However, I am an accepted Out of Network (OON) provider. I tell this to clients. I also explain that even if I had the choice, I would NOT bill insurance but will always, regardless, be happy to give a receipt for OON billing. The myclientsplus website seems like a nice tool I may have for doing this, but $19.95 is a steep fee for a simple service like this. I am still not sure!

    North Carolina does expedite the process for MFTs, though. We have a provisional license we can attain immediately upon graduation. I sat for (and passed with flying colors!) my national MFT exam 4 months before I graduated. Talk about things moving quickly :) I started in private practice right out of school and 9-10 months later I am seeing a decent sized caseload. That said, I could be far busier! I know it will come with time. I am already seeing generous amounts of word of mouth referrals, plus my efforts with Psychology Today and Google Ad Words Express.

    I would love to keep chatting - and I am DEFINITELY going to follow your blog, since we appear to think alike!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Josh- Is it $19.95 for you? I'm fairly certain its $29.95 for me!

      Just to be clear- it's "bare bones" because only you see it- no clients. ;) So it's not attractive really. It does have some integrated calendar function and credit card billing etc... but I don't use those features. I tell you, the automated CMS-1500 forms are worth it to me. No printing or filling out. But maybe I'm paperwork averse.

      Interesting the process No. Carolina goes through. In CA, we must practice as interns (post graduation) for 3000 supervised hours and a minimum of 2 years before sitting for 2 different exams (which usually also take an additional year because of state board processing time). I'm a little jealous that you were able to be in your own practice so quickly! Wow- big difference!

      Delete
  9. I have some really mixed feelings about your posting and perhaps it's because I'm soon to graduate with my Psy.D not a masters and I know that they programs train clinicians differently but I doubt that would account for all of my dismay. Frankly, it's alarming to me because I have never (nor do I plan to) share my billing struggles with my clients. Although my work as a psychologist will be a "job", I chose this profession to help and support the positive growth of those I'm entrusted to support. I feel that by alerting them to billing challenges sends a message that I'm not there for them, I'm there for the money and this is not foundation I want to build rapport on.

    So while I think it's helpful to let clients know about the possibilities of how their information may be accessed, I have concerns that this post airs on the side of scaring people into paying quick and easy cash (which only benefits the clinician) and inaccurately states that a person can "pay for therapy up front, and submit your receipts for reimbursement. In the end you come out of pocket the same amount". I say this is inaccurate because anytime a person uses an out of network provider the reimbursement rate is ALWAYS lower than in network providers meaning that the client holds more of the burden.

    As, I said, I can see the benefit of "some" of the info you present here but I do not agree with the majority (or the tone)... And yes, I am also in the San Francisco bay area.

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    1. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I certainly understand that there are many students (and clinicians) who do not chose to self-disclose with clients. And plenty who do not like the "business" of private practice, and would rather not discuss it. I know you are in good company. Perhaps a majority!

      Again, I know my candor is not to everyone's taste. And that's okay! I understand the concern. I gave this a lot of thought over the years as I have received plenty of feedback on it. Ultimately- I continue to keep it up because:

      It's something *I* would want as a consumer. So in essence (as many therapists) I seek to talk to the type of client I typically attract: a business- minded, independent, highly-educated consumer who doesn't want a hierarchical relationship with their therapist. Believe it or not, I have been thanked by clients for writing this post. And maybe even more to my pleasant surprise- I have been selected as a therapist by this post! That's always a cool experience.

      Like teachers, and mentors, and any service professional, therapists come in all stripes and colors. I really honor that your thoughts on this topic might not mirror my own.

      I also know this is a topic I changed my mind on... as I was in the business longer. I got tired of watching clients (who I cared deeply about) get screwed over by terrible billing practices and their insurer. I got tired of them (unknowingly) being labeled and having their confidentiality breached. I thought they deserved to know what was happening to them! This took time and experience for me to feel the way I do. Initially I started out feeling hell-bent on offering insurance-approved therapy. It wasn't until I saw what was happening to the clients that I got upset about it.

      Best wishes on your own process!

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    2. I'm thinking about how our patients/clients are our advocates, too. They can tell their insurance companies to pay higher rates to providers, to cover more diagnoses and issues (including V codes and relationship therapy), and to let the provider decide course of treatment (rather than a billing or claims person). I think it's important to let patients know what system they're buying into. It's a system that really can take care of us all- patient and provider- if we all push for change at a systemic level. - Molly Merson, MFT (Berkeley)

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  10. Thank you for your candor. I'm angry that this may be the reality of therapy today, but I won't shoot the messenger. It's a good heads-up for first-time clients like myself.

    Good luck in your practice.

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    1. Thank you, I am loving my work! :)

      And I wanted to share in your anger. It is SO upsetting. Working on the periphery of maternity care as well, I can say that managed care is deteriorating further each year. I don't know what the future holds for people. I know that insurance payments are harder to come by... and the hoop jumping increases. It is a sad state.

      For me, I supervise at a nonprofit that offers low-cost counseling to those who cant afford it. It helps me feel like I am doing *some* part to make mental healthcare more accessible. But even then- I am still deeply saddened by the state of things!

      Delete
  11. I am intrigued by your comments also. I am an LPC in CT and have little problem with the insurance end of things. After 12 years I have yet to be audited for one client. New websites that one can obtain eligibility make it easy to explain benefits to the client and using Myclientsplus helps me to keep records, bill and make appointments easily. I consider my clients to be educated and informed individuals but so many people are paying high premiums that I want to make sure I offer insurance billing to optimize their costs. Interestingly enough I see an OON therapist and have many problems wit the insurer that I am forced to spend a lot of time chasing down the correct amount and it makes me wonder if the same games are played with your clients also. I am very conscious of the business side and take payment timely but my first consideration is the service to the customer. I do know LMFT's have difficulty with reimbursement so cash is key for them. I routinely use soft diagnosis codes to protect the client and have yet to be challenged on them.

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    1. Thanks for taking the time to comment! I am learning all the time about insurance in other states. This post continues to get interaction (both here and via email) even years after publication. What I've learned through these interactions is: it varies greatly in other states. Before I stopped taking insurance I was using approximately 30% of my weekly time chasing down payments that I was owed, but was being denied due to: soft diagnosis, insurer "error" and "lost" submissions (on their end). Another new piece of learning for me- in other states insurers are paying market rate for insurance. Here in CA, at last check, some insurers are offering 30-50% of the market rate for therapy. So honestly, I know very few licensed people who are on insurance panels any more. Which is a shame really.

      I also use myclientsplus and this allows my clients to receive reimbursement from their insurer without having to file paperwork. The difference is, when/if their insurer makes an error- it is up to the client to pursue the payment. This allows me to treat patients as they need to be treated, for the diagnoses they need to be treated. And it ALSO allows them to count this toward their high deductible plans (or receive payment, which sometimes happens). I don't have to justify my treatment modalities, fill out treatment plans, have my files audited etc... (all of which happened in the 1 year I was on a panel).

      Here in CA (where I have also been practicing for over 10 years) I am better able to serve my clients by not taking insurance. I do not have to give them lifelong diagnoses (which harm their ability to get coverage in the future). I can treat couples and families (which I cannot do under an insurance panel). I have more hours to give my clients. My overhead is lower. And ultimately I am able to give them the treatment that they need- not what the insurer has decided they need.

      I think what has been such a good learning for me in the several years since publishing this is: insurance is very different in other areas. Also, that insurance coverage itself is in a rapid state of fluctuation here- where we are moving toward a state insurer and are still in the transitional pains. It will be interesting to see how this continues to evolve over the course of the next decade!

      Delete
    2. Interestingly, I just re-read my comments (some are very old) and there is another person from CT who takes exception to my thoughts as well. ;) Things must be good over in CT!

      Delete
  12. You should consider lowering your ego. People will have a harder time being vulnerable to you. I understand writing can be misinterpreted but it can also justify as a true symobl of your soul. Just through your blog i could hear the bits of defense and what sounds like a pretty condescending tone. Therapist (especially in training) need to remember you're more of a teacher than a preacher. This isn't supposed to sound as rude as it may its more just advice from a fed up "consumer" who has not found a helpful educated as well as thee slightest bit of enlightened therapist. Thanks for your truth though.

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    1. Thank you for taking the time to give feedback. I wish you well in your journey for a therapist who works for you. There is such a variety within our profession- I hope you find the right fit! :)

      Delete
  13. Hello there. I have just read this article, and it leaves me in a bit of conundrum. I have been battling with depression, anxiety, and unresolved issues all my life and have never been able to afford to seek help with it. This past year though we have been able to sign up for insurance that actually covers mental health, and I have spent almost two months looking for a clinician that would see me as I feel like I really need help. I don't relish the idea of an insurance company looking over all of the details of my life, or being stuck in a position where I have to pay out of pocket for sessions they don't cover because if I could afford them, I would have done it years ago. It might be a moot point as so far I have not been able to find someone who would see me (even picking clinicians off the list from our insurance company). I suppose what I'm trying to get at is this: what are the options for people like me, who cannot afford to pay out of pocket for therapy? I'm not criticizing you or anybody else that takes the no insurance stance. I completely get it. I wouldn't (and don't) want to be involved with all of that mess either. But... what other choices are there? Do you have any advice?

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    1. Rebecca this is such a great question and it really highlights something I have totally overlooked here! There is actually another option. I didn't list it at first, because it is geographically dependent. But your question has made me realize that might have been a mistake on my part. Maybe I will edit and include.

      There are increasingly a number of nonprofits that are springing up to answer this issue. I actually Co-Supervise at one called The Place Within in Roseville. ( www.theplacewithincounseling.com ) The staff are interns gaining supervision hours (most are post graduation with their masters). They offer counseling on a sliding fee scale to make it affordable AND confidential. To find one near you, try googling "affordable counseling" or "sliding fee scale counseling".

      Normally- In your particular case, as you have insurance with mental health benefits, your best bet is to call your insurer directly and get a list of providers contracted with them. You can really wear yourself out calling local therapists without this step. By getting a list of names first, you can cut down on your phone calls and hopefully connect with someone quickly! (Sometimes, if you're lucky enough to get a long list of names- you can google them first and call the ones who appeal to you). But you're saying that you are not able to find someone to see you? I'm not sure why that would be! Are they full? Or off the panel? In any case, the nonprofit option is often better for people (even those with insurance) as sometimes it can be less expensive than your copay/ deductible.

      Delete
    2. Hi there! Actually, I have now called many people, all of which tell me "they just now stopped taking people with insurance". Every single one of them was on the list provided to me by my insurer as on the panel, in network, and taking clients. They would be willing to see me, but only if I paid out of pocket. One lady offered me a sliding scale fee, but even on a sliding scale I would be looking at a minimum of $75 per visit... and my copay would be $10, with unlimited visits and no deductible, if they would accept it. I'm truly frustrated by the situation because I simply can't justify the cost of paying more than seven times as much for something I already pay insurance for, and its so disappointing to reach clinicians who chose to be on the panel and claim to accept new patients, but won't. I understand that, of course, they ARE taking new patients, just not ones with insurance, but I feel like listing themselves that way is incredibly misleading and unfair. But... I am simply venting frustration that has nothing to do with you, and I'm sorry. I feel like I'm in a place where I probably need help, desperately, and its been very difficult for me to reach out at all. I'm not taking their refusal personally, but it still feels like rejection.
      Regardless, thank you for your response. I will look into reduced cost counseling. We have one that is local to me, but it has a very bad reputation for not really building much of a relationship with the large volume of people coming through their doors (how could they?), and I'm not sure I could handle constantly rehashing the same things with multiple different people that didn't remember me or know me. But... I guess beggars can't be choosers...

      Delete
    3. I am so sad that this is the state of affairs today :( It isn't just. Mental health is still HEALTH. Unfortunately, I find that as healthcare access is getting worse... so is access to mental health.

      Insurers are not offering living wages to mental health clinicians, and so more and more are forced to stop accepting them as payors. And the consumer is the one who gets screwed over the worst in that process. It isn't right at all!

      I hope you find a good option in your local nonprofit. I know we have several local to me and some are fantastic! But it is, for certain, a more transitional population as the counselors are completing schooling or education.

      Delete
  14. This writer should consider the potentially classist and elitest undertones of her writing. To suggest, because she only knows of one personally, that quality providers, whatever her definition of that is, do not accept insurance. I opened a private practice in an underserved area where the majority of residents would not be able to pay out of pocket for a therapist. Way to perpetuate the culture of narcissism.

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    1. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment. It is grossly unfair that mental health seems to become less accessible each year. I am thankful for your work in an under served area. I also have a nonprofit in an under served demographic and so share your heart for making mental healthcare affordable. I understand that sometimes the inequity is maddening and can color our lens. I have been there and will likely find myself there again!

      I encourage you to re-read my wording as there might have been a misunderstanding. When I said "I'm not saying that there are NO good therapists in managed care. Not at all." my intention was to express exactly what you are expressing. At the same time, I can only humbly offer my experiences. I know they might not be someone else's experience. It is still true. Of licensed providers in the area (which I know many) I still only know 1 licensed person who has been doing this for more than 5 years that accepts managed care clients.

      I hope for a paradigm shift in our lifetime that makes quality care accessible in masse. Until then, solutions like yours and mine are the few and far between sadly.

      Delete
  15. Hello Krysta
    Currently, I am residing at the state of Florida. I have graduated over a year and I am starting private practice. Since I am not licensed, I can not join insurance network. However, I was thinking about accepting out of network but I am not sure how to start with the process. Do I need to call all the insurance company and fill out any kind of form or this is something clients deal with insurance? Thanks for you blog!! It was helpful !!

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    1. Thanks for taking the time to comment and congratulations on your recent graduations!

      This might be different in your state, and so take what I am saying with a grain of salt! I encourage you to call at least one local PPO insurer to validate what I'm going to tell you.

      In CA, I don't know any insurance that will reimburse someone without a license. The only exception is: if you are supervised by a licensed person they will sometimes allow you to submit for reimbursement under your supervisors license (varies by insurer). But in all cases, the submission forms require a license by the signature in order to pay. Its the same as medical care really. You cannot receive medical care from a non-licensed provider and have insurance pay for it.

      Now, in California, there are exceptions such as Victim Witness benefits and state-sponsored Medi-Cal which do pay for interns when they are working within an approved agency or under a specific supervisor. So, there might be similar exceptions in your state.

      Best wishes on your path!

      Delete
  16. Krysta,

    You write "The difference is, highly qualified and busy professionals rarely will bill insurance directly (see above) however they will often kindly provide you with the receipt you need to seek payment. And that way, you both win". I write, at least some of the patients are highly qualified and busy professionals. They don't win when they deal with reimbursement. They end up doing the parts of your job you do not want to do. Even hight qualified and busy professionals have duties at work that may not be the best use of their time. Your writing, however well meant, actually reflects badly on health care professionals. It is narcistic, self serving, and myopic; most importantly it lacks maturity. May be it is time to think how blogs from affect the perception of the mental health industry from public at large. May be it is time for series peer reviews...

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    1. Luna,
      Thank you for taking the time to comment. I think, at the core, we have a different perspective on the healthcare crisis. (And there is no doubt, there is a crisis). I could go on at length to try and explain the many ways I help my clients seeking reimbursement. But at the core, you and I just see it differently. To you this is "a part of my job" to spend countless hours seeking payment. To me, as someone who is insured but still pays for my own medical services in cash, I don't see it that way. The face of healthcare is changing annually. I accept that states vary, and that our solutions cannot all look the same. I am open to the idea that some years from now I might find a more workable solution. This is forever evolving.

      There is certainly more than enough room in the world for different kinds of providers. I am thankful that providers exist who will bill insurance directly. I think there are clients for whom that is important. If you are one such provider- good for you!

      For me, I prefer to answer the questions of the healthcare crisis outside of bureaucracy wherever possible; through non-profits (which I have) or through a hybrid cash/billing practice. It's the best option for me and my particular options, talents, time, and world view.

      As far as the rest... well I can't say anything except I honor your (painful!) difference of opinion on me, my motives, my maturity and my work. I wish you well in your own work, whatever that might be. I think we all do our own small part to try and improve what we see. That is my best attempt here. I encourage and support you in your own best effort.

      Delete
  17. I am asking a question as a cash paying mother of a client of a psychologist. My son does not have mental health insurance but has been seeing a psychologist for 2 months. He accepts insurance but of course, my son has none. The local community programs are just overwhelmed and so I am trying to continue to pay for the private services. My question is, is it acceptable to ask a therapist if they might accept payment above but closer to the reimbursement rates paid by insurance companies? He charges $150 a session and accepts only cash or checks so there isn't even a fee paid to credit card companies. This is looking like it is going to be a longer process than I was hoping for so it is becoming a financial burden. I tried to purchase private insurance but they will not cover any condition that has been previously diagnosed (i.e. depression, anxiety). Thank you for any suggestions.

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  18. You took down the blog post but from what I am reading in the comments in sounds like you have clients paranoid about insurance. I am a VERY GOOD therapist who has been in practice for 15 years in your area, take insurance and I feel glad that I am able to give good services to people with insurance. Would you pay out of pocket for your primary care physician? What if you had to go weekly? That is way out of the budget for most people. In all the time I have done this my records or diagnosis has never once been questioned. I am on 8 panels. I really don't think that scaring the client out of using their benefits is helpful to our profession. In addition my paperwork is done by someone else that I pay. Why not let people with insurance also get "good" therapists?

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  19. Wow, I am taken aback by someone saying the comment about being egotistical.
    I mean..licensing is expensive....I paid for 6 years of school and spend hundreds of dollars each year to maintain my licenses, stay up on training, provide a comfortable office for my clients...that doesn't come free for us. Not going through hoops and being paid for the expertise you have garnered over time is just fair!

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    1. Absolutely!I am in same situation and completely agree. It is so offensive that people would call these other therapists egotistical for wanting to make a living. It is such disrespect for the field.

      Delete
  20. oh I do hope you put this article back up soon! I'm considering finishing my MFT this year (I have half of one and put it on hold). I don't think I actually want to be an MFT (I've been coaching - we avoid the entire insurance issue, and many therapists are turning in this direction) but I do like to finish what I start.

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  21. I'd love to sit down and have coffee with you.

    I moved from Illinois to Central California in the last year and as a PCCI, I find it virtually impossible to work with any insurance whatsoever including the MediCal population through Beacon Health Strategies. No plans are working with my license, and it's absolutely brutal to try to make a living as an intern. I have a few full-fee private paying clients for which I am grateful, but the vulnerability I feel (and, frankly, the sense of dependence on my clients) has some very real clinical consequences. It really changes who I am able to be in the room, and that saddens me. As far as I can tell, there is really no coordinated effort to advocate for my license with insurance companies, and so I'm really left feeling as though my time and energy is best left to marketing to the private pay clientele. I feel sad about that, because my heart very much lies beyond that demographic. And agency work for a remotely livable wage is very, very tough to find.

    As an aside, I'm so compelled by the difficulties of this experience on developing clinicians that I'm in the process of forming an intern consultation group both as a way of giving myself community and as a way of staying on top of how the realities of the pre-license experience find their way into clinical work. I think it's quite profound.

    - GDA

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  22. I'm troubled by the tone and some inaccuracies in your blog. First, it's shameful to say that those who are on insurance panels are somehow inferior to those who are not. Many of the colleagues I trust and admire most are on insurance panels. They went to top ranked training programs, are grounded and wonderful people with solid experience, and have made major contributions to the field. Conversely, I've also worked with clinicians who charge outrageous fees, which is matched only by their breathtaking capacity for narcissism and self-aggrandizement, perhaps to compensate for their lack of experience and training, or possibly a general sense of burnout. Although I'm no fan of insurance companies, you fail to mention that a client's "official record" is actually their property which they can amend or excise. And that under ACA, insurers cannot discriminate based on preexisting conditions. For psychologists at least, reimbursement, though not lucrative, is generally reasonable; it may be different for masters level therapists. I like what you say about the neurobiology of attachment and trauma elsewhere on your website, but this blog doesn't seem particularly trauma-informed -- no need to scare people gratuitously about using their insurance.

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    1. Thank you for taking the time to comment. I think you make some excellent points that deserve to be addressed. :)

      - I agree, it is a SHAME that I do not know any good and experienced therapists who are on panels. I do not feel shameful because I am only speaking to my experience. But it is a real shame. I think consumers deserve more for their dollar.

      - As mentioned above, my experiences are very limited to my license and area. I don't know where you comment from. I have been happy to learn that other areas are doing a better job than California at this. I'm glad you know quality people (such as yourself) on insurance panels. I hope this becomes more normal one day. In my area, panels pay approximately 50% of the average rate for clinicians and require more work for it. I know this is different for psychologists, especially those doing psychological testing. I do have an amendment, since writing this I have 1 clinician I would recommend who has become a Medi-Cal provider. So that part has now changed! Hooray!

      - Clients sign over their ability to withhold records when they request insurance payment to the clinician. At that point their confidentiality has been waived and records may be audited as deemed necessary for payment by the insurer.

      - When I speak about insurance denial, I am referring to life and disability insurance which most definitely can be denied on the basis of a mental health history. Medical coverage can become more expensive on the basis of your health history. Although you might be right, this could have changed since I published it. Perhaps I should remove the word medical from the sentence for clarity. Thanks!

      -You are right, this blog is not about trauma. It was written almost 7 years ago and continues to shock me as people find it more and more. I'm not sure how the internet gods figure this stuff out. I sure wish I could direct them elsewhere on my page! ha! If only it were up to me...

      As far as the rest, I won't try to convince you to feel differently about what I wrote. I am bothered about it too. I think its abhorrent that consumers don't know more about this process and that it has been allowed to become what it is today. My hope is that (by shining a light on it) I will be one small contribution toward change. But I recognize that everyone sees a different path toward the higher good. And it sounds like, while ours are different, our hearts are not opposing.

      Delete
  23. Wow!! I am very impressed by everyone's candor and concern for both their clients and our profession. I am a Licensed Psychologist with 28 years in private practice. I firmly believe that the big health insurance companies have almost completely destroyed mental health care in the United States as well as the field of Psychology. I live in one of the most Ph.D. saturated areas of the country. While I beleive in helping people to pay for quality treatment, I do not think that this is happening. I have gone back and forth between accepting and not accepting insurance. I was inspired to become a Psychologist in the 1970's when there were still community mental health centers. I never wanted to see my work as a business but as a profession. I truly beleive that managed care has turned Psychology from a Profession to just a business. I have witnessed many good therapist who had to leave this area to find work. Not because they were not talented and effective but because there are too many Psychologists here fighting to earn a living wage. Many pretend that they are doing well, but only a very few manage to survive financially in this climate of corporate greed and competitiveness. I applaud your speaking out about these dirty little secrets that the insurance company's don't want customers to know.

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    1. Thank you Steevijane for echoing my heart. I am deeply concerned at the effects of managed care on mental health. At a time when mental health care was beginning to get the recognition it deserved, the last decade has seen (I believe) a huge setback in accessibility. And the ones suffering are those who most need it.

      Delete
  24. This article sounds a bit elitist to me! So sad that so many therapist subscribe to this capitalist idea.

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  25. Right...how foolish of therapists to want to make a profitable living and survive. We should be fully altruistic and unlike any other licensed profession requiring graduate level education and a two year post-graduate internship that is paid for by the intern.

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    1. Even if a therapist made a living only off insured clients, they would still make a good living. If a therapist was only paid by insurance 60 bucks a week and had 25 clients, they would 1500 a week which is a good living. Except for the writer of this article who lives in San Francisco, which is a fantasy land in terms of cost of living.

      Delete
    2. Yes, but you are not thinking about the cost of an office space, taxes, malpractice insurance, any office costs and possible vacation time we may want. That nice salary quickly dwindles down to poverty level.

      Delete
  26. Hi Krysta, I paid cash for the sessions, but then I uploaded claims via FSA and I uploaded receipts for psychotherapy to the FSA site, which is via Aetna. Does this mean I'll be in the psychotherapy label for Aetna permanently. ? Thanks

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  27. I can't find a decent therapists because of people like you. You are half of the problem, it's not the fault of the insurance companies. 60 to 70 an hour is still pretty good pay, it's not like you went to medical school, give me a break.

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  28. If I may ask, what is a "soft diagnosis?" I'm assuming it's something like adjustment disorder, is that correct? What other disorders would be considered "soft"?

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    1. Dave: I haven't heard the term "soft" diagnosis, but I would think there are a couple ways that could apply. Yes an Adjustment Disorder essentially means that when the stressor is removed, the client can recover. I guess that would be "soft" in the sense that you could recover. In reality the diagnostic manual requires that the diagnosis causes significant difficulties in the client's life. Now, that means that one could resolve those issues and no longer have significant difficulties, which means they are no longer diagnosable. However, as this blog author noted, I don't think insurance companies always view it that way. Once you are diagnosed, they may carry that for ever, if you will. Also, you could get a "provisional" diagnosis, or your provider might give you a "rule out" diagnosis. These are also "soft" in the sense that the provider may determine you don't meet the diagnostic criteria. I think most insurance companies would prefer a more solid diagnosis, but that is something the provider would address directly with the insurance company. They may decide not to pay the provider if you don't have a clear diagnosis. The point of this article is that all of that can get very complicated because the insurance company wants to decrease risk and gray areas.

      If my therapist was giving me something they called a "soft" diagnosis, or maybe ANY diagnosis, I would expect them to explain exactly what that means and go over the diagnosis with me.

      Hope that helps... Mike

      Delete
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  32. i just want to share my experience with everyone. I have being hearing about this blank ATM card for a while and i never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts. Until one day i discovered a hacking guy called Josshua. he is really good at what he is doing. Back to the point, I inquired about The Blank ATM Card. If it works or even Exist. They told me Yes and that its a card programmed for random money withdraws without being noticed and can also be used for free online purchases of any kind. This was shocking and i still had my doubts. Then i gave it a try and asked for the card and agreed to their terms and conditions. Hoping and praying it was not fake. One week later i received my card and tried with the closest ATM machine close to me, It worked like magic. I was able to withdraw up to $6000. This was unbelievable and the happiest day of my life. So far i have being able to withdraw up to $78000 without any stress of being caught. I don't know why i am posting this here, i just felt this might help those of us in need of financial stability. blank ATM has really change my life. If you want to contact them, Here is the email address (harrytechworld@gmail.com). And I believe they will also Change your life...whatsapp//+2348074609849

    ReplyDelete
  33. Do you know you can live that luxurious life you
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    ReplyDelete
  34. GET YOUR BLANK ATM CARD AND BE RICH FOREVER EMAIL: DICKSONBLANKATMHACKER@GMAIL.COM

    Alicia Orlando by name from USA.. i am here to share this message of greatness to only those who will seize the opportunity life will offer to become somebody great and actualize their dreams.so happy I got mine from Mr Dickson. My blank ATM card can withdraw 5000 dollars daily. I got it from Him last week and now I have 50000 dollars monthly. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mr.Dickson because i met two people before him and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Mr Dickson sent the card through UPS Express Delivery Shipment, and i got it in 4 days. Get your own card from him now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,he is giving it out to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught.Start living your big dreams, living that large and comfortable life that you always wised for, contact email: dicksonblankatmhacker@gmail.com cell whatsapp/ +12048178403 and make your purchase immediately.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $50,000 MONTHLY for a maximum of 12 MONTHS. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week
    and I have used it to get $150,000 already. Georg Bednorz Hackers is giving
    out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it
    is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending
    to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when
    using the card. get yours from Georg Bednorz Hackers today! Just send an email
    to georgbednorzhackers@gmail.com or send him a text message +19143614629

    ReplyDelete
  36. FOR YOUR REQUIRED QUICK AFFORDABLE LOAN, EMAIL dawsonlewisloancompany@yahoo.com

    Hello, I am Sandra Alice currently living in New jersey city, USA. I am a widow at the moment with two kids and i was stuck in a financial situation in June 2015 and i needed to refinance and pay my bills. I tried seeking loans from various loan firms both private and corporate but never with success, and most banks declined my credit. But as God would have it, I was introduced to a Man of God a private loan lender who gave me a loan of $105,000USD and today am a business owner and my kids are doing well at the moment, if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan without collateral , no credit check, no co signer with just 2% interest rate and better repayment plans and schedule, please contact Dawson lewis He doesn’t know that am doing this but am so happy now and i decided to let people know more about him and also i want God to bless him more.You can contact him through his email: (dawsonlewisloancompany@yahoo.com) Or TEL:+14105016847

    ReplyDelete

  37. Get $5,500 USD every day, for six months! See how it works

    Do you know you can hack into any ATM machine with a hacked ATM card??
    Order for a blank ATM card now and get millions within a week!:
    contact us via email address: atmstorecardspro@gmail.com
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    We have specially programmed ATM cards that can be use to hack ATM
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    Here is our price lists for the ATM CARDS:
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    ReplyDelete
  38. My name is am from united states.become rich today and take the risk of transforming your own life. Try and get a blank ATM card today from (Mr Lucas) and be among the lucky ones who are benefiting from this cards. This PROGRAMMED blank ATM card is capable of hacking into any ATM machine,anywhere in the world. I got to know about this BLANK ATM CARD when I was searching for job online about a month ago..It has really changed my life for good and now I can say I'm rich because am a living testimony. The least money I get in a day with this card is about $4,000. i can also withdraw up to $65,000 a month now and then I keeping pumping money into my account. Though is illegal, there is no risk of being caught ,because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable, it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you..For details on how to get yours today,Email the hackers on:fastestblankatmhackers@gmail.com or what app him on his number:+2348076023257,

    ReplyDelete
  39. GET RICH WITHIN 1WEEKS CONTACT:DERRICKSECUREBLANKATMHACKERS@GMAIL.COM

    I want to share a life changing story with everyone who cares to read this testimony. Blank ATM cards are real and are effective all over the world. my name is [Juan Nate] i live in SPAIN . I got this card from [Mr Derrick] a month ago. this card has really help me pay my debits and now i am free from all financial problems. I no this is hard to believe , but i never new there was this kind of card until i got one. This card withdraw more than €6000 daily and it is very easy to use. But you have to be very careful in other not to be caught by the police because it is illegal. If you want more information on this card and how to get one just contact the hackers by this address(derricksecureblankatmhackers@gmail.com) or also on their what app number:+2349037387574. now my life is more better daily as i can pay my bills without any problems or whatsoever.

    ReplyDelete
  40. I have my ATM card already programmed to withdraw the maximum of $ 4,000 a day for a maximum of 20 days. I'm so happy with this because I got mine last week and I've used it to get $ 44,000. Mr Martins is giving the card just to help the poor and needy even though it is illegal but it is something nice and it is not like another scam pretending to have the ATM cards blank. And no one gets caught when using the card. Get yours today by sending a mail to martinshackers22@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  41. blank atm card got me rich over night, thanks to MRS CLARA CYBER TECH for the development she save my family and also make us rich i got my card when i was browsing through a testimony on how the same company got him rich,i decided to contact her i have almost lost hope because i have been contacting other hackers but never got my card all they do is request for more money, i have already made up my mind that after this try i will end the dream of getting this BLANK ATM CARD,but so lucky i met the right hacker, she just request for my details and some info after some conversations, she told me the requirement for getting the card after i paid the fee i was so surprise to gat my card deliver to me because it was like a dream, i am very happy i just want to let the world know that there is a genuine hacker who can help you with this atm card is MRS CLARA CYBER TECH email clara.cybertech@outlook.com

    ReplyDelete
  42. My name is Steve Orlando am from united states.become rich today and take the risk of transforming your own life. Try and get a blank ATM card today from (Mr Lucas) and be among the lucky ones who are benefiting from this cards. This PROGRAMMED blank ATM card is capable of hacking into any ATM machine,anywhere in the world. I got to know about this BLANK ATM CARD when I was searching for job online about a month ago..It has really changed my life for good and now I can say I'm rich because am a living testimony. The least money I get in a day with this card is about $4,000. i can also withdraw up to $65,000 a month now and then I keeping pumping money into my account. Though is illegal, there is no risk of being caught ,because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable, it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you..For details on how to get yours today,Email the hackers on:fastestblankatmhackers@gmail.com or what app him on his number:+2348076023257,

    ReplyDelete
  43. Am really happy that i and my husband are cured of (HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS) with the herbal medicine of Dr UDURO, I AM FROM UK, i have been suffering from this disease for the past 2 years without solution until i came across his email of this doctor who have cure so many people with his herbal medicine, i also choose to give him a chance to help me and my husband, he told me what to do and i kindly did it, and he gave us his herbal medicine and direct me on how to use it, i also follows his instruction for use and he ask us to go for a check up after 2 weeks and which i did, to my greatest surprise our result came out as negative, we are really happy that there is someone like this Dr UDURO is ready to help anytime any day. to all the readers and viewers that is doubting this testimony stop doubting it and contact this Dr and see if he will not actually help you. contact him now if you are also in need of help via email drudurohaberahome@gmail.com may god bless you sir for all your good works. or Whatsapp him on this +2348138634433.
    He can also cure many disease like HIV,, DIABETIES,,CANCER,,DIARIA,, IF YOU NEED A BABY IN YOUR FAMILY AND IF YOU NEED YOUR EX LOVER LIKE YOUR EX WIFE,,GIRL FRIEND,,EX HUSBAND,,EX BOY FRIEND.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Do you want to sell your kidney? Are you seeking for an opportunity to sell your kidney for money due to financial break down and you don’t know what to do, then contact us today and we shall offer you good amount $220,000.00 USD for your Kidney.My name is (Dr Williams peter) am a Phrenologist in Maamoobi hospital Ghana . Our hospital is specialized in Kidney Surgery and we also deal with buying and transplantation of kidneys with a living corresponding donor. If you are interested in selling or buying kidney’s please don’t hesitate to contact us via email: williamspeter199@gmail.com phone number . +233264866768

    ReplyDelete
  45. Good day to all viewer online..Hacker Atm card is right here and get rich immediately and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of our ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode.This is an opportunity you all have been waiting for. Get the new programmed ATM BLANK CARD that can hack any ATM MACHINE and withdraw money from any where in the world. it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mr Dickson because i met two people before me and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now.Mr Dickson sent the card through DHL and i got it in 24hours. Get your own card from Mr Dickson now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,Mr Dickson is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Mr Dickson because he changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except,his whatsapp number +12048178403 or email him:dicksonblankatmhacker@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  46. Good day to all viewer online..Hacker Atm card is right here and get rich immediately and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of our ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode.This is an opportunity you all have been waiting for. Get the new programmed ATM BLANK CARD that can hack any ATM MACHINE and withdraw money from any where in the world. it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mr Dickson because i met two people before me and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now.Mr Dickson sent the card through DHL and i got it in 24hours. Get your own card from Mr Dickson now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,Mr Dickson is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Mr Dickson because he changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except,his whatsapp number +12048178403 or email him:dicksonblankatmhacker@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  47. GET YOUR BLANK ATM CARD AND BE RICH FOREVER EMAIL: DICKSONBLANKATMHACKER@GMAIL.COM

    Alicia Orlando by name from USA.. i am here to share this message of greatness to only those who will seize the opportunity life will offer to become somebody great and actualize their dreams.so happy I got mine from Mr Dickson. My blank ATM card can withdraw 5000 dollars daily. I got it from Him last week and now I have 50000 dollars monthly. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mr.Dickson because i met two people before him and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Mr Dickson sent the card through UPS Express Delivery Shipment, and i got it in 4 days. Get your own card from him now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,he is giving it out to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught.Start living your big dreams, living that large and comfortable life that you always wised for, contact email: dicksonblankatmhacker@gmail.com cell whatsapp/ +12048178403 and make your purchase immediately.

    ReplyDelete
  48. I have my ATM card programmed and covered to withdraw the maximum of $2,000 per day for a maximum of 20 days. I am very happy about this because I have mine last week and I have used it for $ 2,000. Mr. John Siphas gives the card to help the poor and needy, although it is illegal but it is rather nice and it is not like others scam pretending to have the ATM cards blank. And no one gets caught when using the card. Get yours from it. Just send an email to johnsiphas@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete

  49. I lost my husband to another woman, i was so heart broken.. I was in PAINS.. physically hurts in the chest.... emotionally distraught...wish there was a pill or shot to take that would make you feel all better..but today, OMG this is exactly how I feel..I feel so happy, i contact dr.uzor in regard of getting my husband back and ( uzorspelltemple@gmail.com) or visit his website//:www.uzorspelltemple.webs.com reunited i and my husband together with his powers,

    ReplyDelete
  50. I am incensed but I will keep my cool: How dare you say, in essence, that therapists who take insurance are poor therapists! I live in a small but highly prosperous county that has a therapist every few feet and if I did not take insurance I would not be able to make a living; in fact, I do not make a living from my therapy practice alone, even with insurance. I am just lucky to have other income and I have met only one person in the ten years I have lived here who does make a living from her practice. She has the local police force, which pays her $300.00 per hour. The rest, like myself, must have other sources of income to supplement their practice. I also have a sliding scale that goes as low as pro bono for the many people who cannot pay my full price of $150.00/hour. I even have a billing person who does the daunting work of figuring out how to successfully bill these insurance companies who indeed do not want to pay us. I do what I do because I want to help people as I was helped. Who the hell are you? I would hate to bring my problems to you. You are arrogant and therefore could never really help anyone. You need a Reality Therapist! ...and who are these "robot" responses?

    ReplyDelete
  51. I have being hearing about this blank ATM card for a while and i never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts. Until one day i discovered a hacking guy called Lucas. he is really good at what he is doing. Back to the point, I inquired about The Blank ATM Card. If it works or even Exist. They told me Yes and that its a card programmed for random money withdraws without being noticed and can also be used for free online purchases of any kind. This was shocking and i still had my doubts. Then i gave it a try and asked for the card and agreed to their terms and conditions. praying and hoping it was not a scam i used the blank CARD and it was successful i withdraw nor less than 10,000 dollar each every day the blank CARD worked like a magic and now i have become rich and famous in my society, if you want to order for the blank ATM CARD here is there email address:fastestblankatmhackers@gmail.com or his Mobile:+2348076023257.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Hello everyone, my name is Kate and I want to recommend a reliable hacker who helped hack my husband's cell phone remotely.

    Which gave me full access to all his texts and, and now he has nothing to hide from me. If you require his service, contact ghosthacker2351@gmail.com, tell him Kate referred you he'll help.

    ReplyDelete
  53. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $50,000 daily for a maximum of 20 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $100,000. he is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and she is not like othis scam pretending to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. get yours from his. Just send his an email On {stevereasbeck01@gmail.com}

    ReplyDelete
  54. i was very poor and could not get a genuine loan but a hacker gave me a card loaded with cash, i am able to collect 3000$ per day with this card and this card will last for 6 months, the hacker told me to also advertise the card to my friends that is why i am telling you about it now, if you need this card contact dupuymichael26@gmail.com

    this card have been my savior since i collected it last month here

    thanks

    ReplyDelete
  55. BE SMART AND BECOME RICH IN LESS THAN 3DAYS….It all depends on how fast you can be to get the new PROGRAMMED blank ATM card that is capable of hacking into any ATM machine anywhere in the world. I got to know about this BLANK ATM CARD when I was searching for job online about a month ago..It has really changed my life for good and now I can say I’m rich and I can never be poor again. The least money I get in a month with this BLANK ATM CARD is about $50,000.(fifty thousand USD). Everyday I keeping pumping money into my account. Though it's illegal, there is no risk of being caught, because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable,it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTVs to detect you.. For details on how to get yours today, email the hackers on : officialblankatmhacker@gmail.com ....Tell your loved once too, and start to live large. That’s the simple testimony of how my life changed for good…Love you all …the email address again is officialblankatmhacker@gmail.com...

    ReplyDelete
  56. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $50,000 daily for a maximum of 20 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $100,000. MR philips is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. get yours from him. Just send him an email On philipsharveryblankatmhacker

    ReplyDelete
  57. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $5,000 daily for a maximum of 30
    days via (wesleymarkhackers@gmail.com).
    I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $150,000. Wesley mark Hackers is giving
    out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it
    is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending
    to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when
    using the card. get yours from wesley mark Hackers today! Just send an email
    to (wesleymarkhackers@gmail.com)

    ReplyDelete
  58. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $5,000 daily for a maximum of 31 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine and I have used it to get $155,000. MR OSCAR is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice that will help your financial hardship to a change of level financially. And no one gets caught when using the card for the card is well program and very active. get yours from him. Just send him an email On oscarwhitehackersworld@gmail.com THIS IS 100% REAL. I AM A BENEFICIARY OF THIS. HACKERS EMAIL: oscarwhitehackersworld@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  59. Become rich today and take the risk of transforming your own life. Try and get a blank ATM card today from (MR JOHN) and be among the lucky ones who are benefiting from this cards. This PROGRAMMED blank ATM card is capable of hacking into any ATM machine,anywhere in the world. I got to know about this BLANK ATM CARD when I was searching for job online about a month ago..It has really changed my life for good and now I'm rich because am a living testimony. The list money I get in a day with this card is about $2,000.I keeping pumping money into my account.there is no risk of being caught because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable, it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you..For details on how to get yours today, email the hackers on johnsiphas@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  60. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $5,000 daily for a maximum of 30
    days via (wesleymarkhackers@gmail.com).
    I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $150,000. Wesley mark Hackers is giving
    out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it
    is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending
    to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when
    using the card. get yours from wesley mark Hackers today! Just send an email
    to (wesleymarkhackers@gmail.com)

    ReplyDelete

  61. I can’t hide this great testimony that took place in my life i will love everyone to know it and be a partaker that is why i want to share it to the whole world by placing this advert online, I am ( Burriss.frederick), I want to thank (Mr Charle) for her kindness upon my family life, I never knew that there is still a sincere and trustworthy lender like this on internet and on earth. Just some days i was in search for a loan of $95,000.00 Dollars,As I was running out of money for feeding, School fees, My business was really going out of capital and my rent. I have been scammed about $5,200 Dollars before, so with that I decided not to involve my self in such business again. But a Friend of mine introduced me to a loan firm due to my appearance and doings and also my complains to her. And I told her that I am not interested of any loan deal anymore but she told me that there is still a sincere lender who she will recommend me to, And she gave me the details of this woman( Mr Charle )then i decided to give it one more trial and i am most grateful and lucky today, I was given a loan amount of $95,000,00Dollars by this great firm Prudent Financial Service, If you are in need of a genuine, Sincere, durable and a trust worthy loan lender or financial assistance and also you can be reliable and trusted, capable of paying back at the due time of the funds I will advice you to send your contact to them via emai(loanfirmcompany011@gmail.com). well my lovely Husband extend his greeting to you Mr frederick Bryan also if not for you I can't imagine the way life should be for my family today.Please I am begging everyone that will come across this post to help me thank him and if you are in need of a loan do not hesitate to contact him he is legit i mean most worthy to be trusted, And I will always be sharing this great surprise and testimony that happened in my life everyday

    ReplyDelete
  62. Hello Every One lovenefinancefirm638@yahoo.com is the rightful
    place where you can get your loan, I am mrs Anne Wilson From
    Kansa, Missouri U.S.A, I
    quickly want to
    use this medium to share a testimony on how God directed me to
    a Legit and
    real money lender who have transformed my life from grass to
    grace, from
    being poor to a rich woman who can now boast of a healthy and
    wealthy life
    without stress or financial difficulties. After so many months of
    trying to
    get a loan on the internet and was scammed the sum of $3,600 i
    became so
    desperate in getting a loan from a legit loan lender online who will
    not
    add to my pains, then i decided to contact a friend of mine who
    recently
    got a loan online, we discussed about the issue and to our
    conclusion she
    told me about a woman called Mrs Lovene Wright who is the C.E.O of
    Lovene finance firm (USA)
    Loans So i applied for a loan sum of (78,000.00USD) with low
    interest rate
    of 2%, so the loan was approved easily without stress and all the
    preparations where made concerning the loan transfer and in less
    than
    two(2) days the loan was deposited into my bank so i want to
    advice any one
    i need of a loan to quickly contact her via:
    lovenefinancefirm638@yahoo.com or call them on +18168655025
    she does not know am doing this i pray that God will bless her for
    the good
    thing she has done in my life.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Make cool money now! We are in the business of making others rich within the shortest period of time.
    come get your blank ATM card today and be among the lucky ones.
    This PROGRAMMED blank ATM card is capable of hacking into any ATM machine,anywhere in the world. I got to know about this BLANK ATM CARD when I was searching for job online about a month ago..It has really changed my life for good and now I can say I'm rich and I can never be poor again. The least money I get in a day with it is about $30,000.Every now and then I keeping pumping money into my account. Though is illegal,there is no risk of being caught ,because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable,it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you..For details on how to get yours today, email the hackers on : (ericmarkatm616@gmail.com)

    ReplyDelete
  64. WHAT A WONDERFUL LOTTERY SPELL, I'M TRULY BLESSED BY DR.ZULU SPELL TEMPLE WHICH HELPED ME TO WIN A LOTTERY AMOUNT OF (£14,509,500.00). ALL THANKS TO HIM FOR CHANGING MY STORY. HE CAN ALSO CHANGE YOURS OR YOUR UGLY SITUATION IN JUST AN HOUR, CONTACT HIM VIA EMAIL::::ZULUSPELLTEMPLE@YAHOO.COM::::WHATSAPP NUMBER:::+2347067468416

    I'm Beverley Doran, From England. I was was having a terrible year. I had lost my job, been forced to take out a second mortgage on my home, and seemed to be spiraling further and further into credit card debt. My terrible financial situation drove me into a deep depression, and it wasn’t long before my social life was in shambles as well. At that point, I felt that my future was hopeless and that I would truly need a miracle to help me climb out of this hole. With nowhere else to turn, I finally decided to do the one thing that I hadn’t yet tried, I went online searching for voodoo power, a spell caster to help me with a winner number, then I saw series of testimonies on how DR ZULU helped so many people to win lotteries. Then I had to contact him immediately, saying “Dear DR ZULU, please help me win the lottery. I have lost my job. I really need the money, so please help me win.” and he replied saying "my daughter, It's hard to meet a person who's never dreamed of winning the lottery. Many people buy lottery tickets, but their dream never comes true. Perhaps, they just don't know a certain system, are unlucky, or choose the wrong numbers..We can think of many different explanations for it, but just one of them is true-those who can't win have never used services of a professional spell caster and ordered lottery spells" So he promised to help me, after meeting up with the necessary requirement, he cast a lottery spell for me and said “BUY A LOTTERY TICKET!” which I did immediately. What happened next truly shocked me, the result came out and my name was among the lucky winners. I hit a lottery jackpot, (£14,509,500.00). Indeed God is wonderful, he used Dr ZULU to change my story and that of my family. Stop dying in silence, stop buying lottery ticket every day and never win. God can still change your story through DR ZULU, his a great spell caster, he's extremely rich, he doesn't need your money, all he want is for you to appreciate him after you must have won the lottery, contact him today and let your life change for better. Email: zuluspelltemple@yahoo.com, zuluspelltemple02@gmail.com or WhatsApp: +2347067468416. He can also help you to:
    1. GET YOUR EX LOVER BACK.
    2. TO STOP A DIVORCE.
    3. TO GET A JOB.
    4. TO GET PREGNANT.
    5. TO GET A GOOD HUSBAND OR WIFE.
    6. TO ENLARGE YOUR PENIS OR BOOBS
    7. AND MANY MORE

    ReplyDelete


  65. I never believed in this blank ATM card until i got one for my self, i was going through a friends pics on twitter when i saw a comment about a blank ATM card that can make you rich. I decided to give it a try by purchasing one of the card, though i was curious but my curiosity was satisfied when i got the blank card and made a withdrawal of $5000 instant & was also able to transfer $8000 into my bank account. I never believed this card was real after i lost money to scammers but this hackers proved me wrong that they were real and possesses the card, don't be left out at this great opportunity has i have detected the real hackers. To get this card without getting scammed then Email: ghosthackingfoundation.hk@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  66. I am from Spain, I want to share my testimony on how i got the blank ATM card. I was so wrecked that my company fired me simply because i did not obliged to their terms, so they hacked into my system and phone and makes it so difficult to get any other job, i did all i could but things kept getting worse by the day that i couldn’t afford my 3 kids fees and pay my bills. I owe so many people trying to borrow money to survive because my old company couldn’t allow me get another job and they did all they could to destroy my life just for declining to be among their evil deeds. haven’t given up i kept searching for job online when i came across the testimony of a lady called Judith regarding how she got the blank ATM card. Due to my present state, i had to get in touch with Hacker called STEVE MONEY of onlineatmhacker@gmail.com and he told me the procedures and along with the terms which i agreed to abide and i was told that the Blank card will be deliver to me without any further delay and i hold on to his words and to my greatest surprise, i received an ATM card worth $4.5 million USD , All Thanks to STEVE MONEY , if you are facing any financial problem contact him asap

    Gmial: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com

    Yahoomail: onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com

    cellphone: +13869516900

    ReplyDelete
  67. I want to use this medium to applause to Engineer Michael for making me rich today with the help of his Blank ATM Card, my life i have been nondrying how to make it in life, i tried hard to make sure I'm rich, no friends could help and my parents are poor, i tried hard, i went online guestbook to make a research on how to make money along the line i saw many comment with different people which Engineer Michael has help with his blank atm card, they where thanking him so i gave him a try by texting him through phone number they provided, he replied and ask me what do i need the card for i explained to him so he gave me procedure which i obey and follow, he prepare the card and send it to through ups within 2 days i got my card with my pin i was so happy, i have fully recommend Michael Blank ATM Card to everyone who want to b rich, Because i promise to tell the world about him, please feel free to text or email him, he will help you he is a good man. at:micharelatmhacker@gmail.com call and text him +18508008129.

    ReplyDelete
  68. I got my already programmed blank ATM card to withdraw a maximum of $5,000 daily for 30 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week and I have used it to get $100,000. Mrs OMON is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and she is not like other scam pretending to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. get yours from her. Just send her an email on: atmmachine581@gmai.com

    ReplyDelete
  69. Hello all,

    I am a private lender, i offer loan at 2% this is a legitimate company with honor and difference we are ready to help you out in any financial problem that you are we offer all type of loan so if you are interested in this loan offer kindly contact us on our email: (anggadiman1@gmail.com)

    Also provide the follow details so that we can proceed with the loan immediately.

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    Contact us with the above details on our email: anggadiman1@gmail.com

    Regards to you all.

    ReplyDelete
  70. ....I got my already programmed ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $50,000 daily for a maximum of 30
    days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week
    and I have used it to get $100,000. MR Philips is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy. he also advice us to help the needy around us when we get the card so that God will keep blessing all of us. get yours from him now. Just send him an email
    On philipsharveryblankatmhacker@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  71. I am from Spain, I want to share my testimony on how i got the blank ATM card. I was so wrecked that my company fired me simply because i did not obliged to their terms, so they hacked into my system and phone and makes it so difficult to get any other job, i did all i could but things kept getting worse by the day that i couldn’t afford my 3 kids fees and pay my bills. I owe so many people trying to borrow money to survive because my old company couldn’t allow me get another job and they did all they could to destroy my life just for declining to be among their evil deeds. haven’t given up i kept searching for job online when i came across the testimony of a lady called Judith regarding how she got the blank ATM card. Due to my present state, i had to get in touch with Hacker called STEVE MONEY of onlineatmhacker@gmail.com and he told me the procedures and along with the terms which i agreed to abide and i was told that the Blank card will be deliver to me without any further delay and i hold on to his words and to my greatest surprise, i received an ATM card worth $4.5 million USD , All Thanks to STEVE MONEY , if you are facing any financial problem contact him asap

    Gmial: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com

    Yahoomail: onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com

    cellphone: +13869516900

    ReplyDelete
  72. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $50,000 MONTHLY for a maximum of 12 MONTHS. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week
    and I have used it to get $150,000 already. Georg Bednorz Hackers is giving
    out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it
    is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending
    to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when
    using the card. get yours from Georg Bednorz Hackers today! Just send an email
    to georgbednorzhackers@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  73. I am capable to give out financial help through card, i give out card containing enough money and you can use this card to collect 5000$ per day, if you have this card you will not be poor anymore and you will be able to pay your bills,i have given this card to many people in many countries like Spain, Italy, USA and Russia, if you need this card contact me now tarjetaservicio@gmail.com

    thanks

    ReplyDelete
  74. I've heard so much about this blank ATM card but doubted if it was real due to numerous comments all over the internet which makes it difficult to know the REAL hackers. I decided to go on the internet then i read so many testimony of Ghost Hacking Foundation on how they've helped so many people with the blank ATM card though i was curious, but i realized that giving a try would not also hurt. I contacted this ghost Hacker & they instructed me on what to do and how much i need to pay for the card to get to me & i did and waited for the card to be delivered, i was nervous if they had ran away with my money but to my greatest surprise i received an email which was my tracking number to my shipped card and for the past two days now i have withdrawn $10,000,00. If you need an ATM card contact ATM, send an email to: ghosthackingfoundation.hk@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  75. What a miracle to have my ex back,my name is mary benny
    and i need to share this great testimony... I just want to say thanks Dr gbojie for taking time to help me cast the spell that brings back my ex lover {now my husband},who suddenly lost interest in me after six month of engagement,but today we are married and we are more happier than never before, I am really short of words and joyful, and i don't know how much to convey my appreciation to you doctor gbojie you are a God sent to restore broken relationship.he deeply enjoy helping people achieve their desires, find true love,getting their ex lovers back,stop abusive relationships,find success,attract happiness,find soul mates and more,contact him today. and let him show you the wonders and amazement of his Love Spell System. He deliver results at his best in real spell casting,email him for help on gbojiespiritualtemple@gmail.com you can also call him on +2349066410185 contact him on his web site https://gbojiespelltemple.wordpress.com

    ReplyDelete
  76. What a miracle to have my ex back,my name is mary benny
    and i need to share this great testimony... I just want to say thanks Dr gbojie for taking time to help me cast the spell that brings back my ex lover {now my husband},who suddenly lost interest in me after six month of engagement,but today we are married and we are more happier than never before, I am really short of words and joyful, and i don't know how much to convey my appreciation to you doctor gbojie you are a God sent to restore broken relationship.he deeply enjoy helping people achieve their desires, find true love,getting their ex lovers back,stop abusive relationships,find success,attract happiness,find soul mates and more,contact him today. and let him show you the wonders and amazement of his Love Spell System. He deliver results at his best in real spell casting,email him for help on gbojiespiritualtemple@gmail.com you can also call him on +2349066410185 contact him on his web site https://gbojiespelltemple.wordpress.com

    ReplyDelete
  77. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $50,000 MONTHLY for a maximum of 12 MONTHS. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week
    and I have used it to get $150,000 already. Georg Bednorz Hackers is giving
    out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it
    is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending
    to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when
    using the card. get yours from Georg Bednorz Hackers today! Just send an email
    to georgbednorzhackers@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  78. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  79. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  80. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  81. My name is Eric Gomes i am located in USA,Texas. i will like to publish the hand work of God to the gener..al public. God has been very grateful to me and my family. 5months ago i was seriously searching for a loan worth $90,000.00 to buy a house in the USA. And i was scammed by various lenders online, but 2weeks ago i saw a post about ATM blank cards. I doubted this but decided to give it a try by Contacting them through there emails on(creditcardhackers011@gmail.com) they responded with their guidelines on how the card works. i'was assured that the card can withdraw $5000 instant & was credited with $500,000.00 so i requested for one & paid the purchasing fee to obtain the card. 72 hrs later, i was shock to see the DHL agent in my resident with a parcel{card} i signed and went back inside and confirmed the card works after the agent left. This is no doubts because i have the card & has made used of the card. This hackers are abroed based hackers set out to help people with financial freedom!! Contact them today on(creditcardhackers011@gmail.com) if you wants to get rich with this card...

    ReplyDelete
  82. Hi, My name is ANITA BENSON and i just want to share my experience with everyone. I have being hearing about this blank ATM card for a while and i never really paid any interest to it because of my doubts. Until one day i discovered a hacking guy called JOSSY . he is really good at what he is doing. Back to the point, I inquired about The Blank ATM Card. If it works or even Exist. They told me Yes and that its a card programmed for random money withdraws without being noticed and can also be used for free online purchases of any kind. This was shocking and i still had my doubts. Then i gave it a try and asked for the card and agreed to their terms and conditions.. Four days later i received my card and tried with the closest ATM machine close to me, to my greatest surprise It worked like magic. I was able to withdraw up to $5000 . This was unbelievable and the happiest day of my life. So far i have being able to withdraw up to $48000 without any stress of being caught. there is no ATM MACHINES this BLANK ATM CARD CANNOT penetrate into it because it have been programmed with various tools and software. it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you i don’t know why i am posting this here, i just felt this might help those of us in need of financial stability. blank ATM has really change my life. If you want to contact them, Here is the email address atmmachine192@gmail.com PLS REMEMBER TO HELP ME THANK THEM

    ReplyDelete
  83. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $50,000 MONTHLY for a maximum of 12 MONTHS. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week
    and I have used it to get $150,000 already. Georg Bednorz Hackers is giving
    out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it
    is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending
    to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when
    using the card. get yours from Georg Bednorz Hackers today! Just send an email
    to georgbednorzhackers@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  84. HOW I GOT MY LOAN FROM THIS GREAT COMPANY
    henryloanscompany@yahoo.com
    Hello my dear people , I am Anita Frank, currently living in New jersey city, USA. I am a widow at the moment with three kids and i was stuck in a financial situation in May 2017 and i needed to refinance and pay my bills. I tried seeking loans from various loan firms both private and corporate but never with success, and most banks declined my credit ,do not full prey to those hoodlums at there that call them self money lender they are all scam , all they want is your money and you well not hear from them again they have done it to me twice before I met Mr. Henry the most interesting part of it is that my loan was transfer to me within 74 hours so I will advice you to contact Mr. Henry if you are interested in getting loan and you are sure you can pay him back on time you can contact him via email……… ( henryloanscompany@yahoo.com ) No credit check, no co signer with just 3% interest rate and better repayment plans and schedule if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan without collateral then contact Mr. Bill Gate today for your loan
    They offer all kind of categories of loan they
    Short term loan (5_10 years)
    Long term loan (20_40)
    Media term loan(10_20)
    They offer loan like
    Home loan............., Business loan........ Debt loan .......
    Student loan..........,Business start up loan
    Business loan....... , Company loan.............. etc
    Email..........( henryloanscompany@yahoo.com )
    When it comes to financial crisis and loan then Henry loan financial is the place to go please just tell him I Mrs. Anita Frank direct you Good Luck.......................

    ReplyDelete
  85. Welcome to Berry LOANS COMPANY
    ( bnunoloans@yahoo.com )
    Berry loans Company Provide offer loan
    at a very low interest rate of 3%, we offer Personal
    loans, Debt Consolidation Loan, Venture Capital,
    Business Loan, Educational Loan, Home Loan, and
    Loan for any reason and urgent needs!. with a
    maximum duration of 30 years.
    Have you been turned down by your bank? Do you
    have bad credit? Do you have unpaid bills? Are you in
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    more as we are here to offer you a low interest loan.
    Our loan ranges from $5,000-USD (Five Thousand US
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    your loan amount in to US dollar, Euro or Pounds
    FORWARDED TO THIS EMAIL:( bnunoloans@yahoo.com )
    or call/WhatsApp +2347016771691.
    1. Your Full names:_______
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    8. Monthly Income:_______
    9. Date Of Birth:________
    10.Telephone Number:_________
    Yours In Service,
    Mr Berry loans Company
    Email: ( bnunoloans@yahoo.com )

    ReplyDelete
  86. We offer private, commercial and personal loans with very low annual interest rates as low as 2% in one year to 50 years repayment period anywhere in the world. We offer loans ranging from $ 5,000 to USA $ 100 million. Our loans are well insured for maximum security is our priority. Are you losing sleep at nights worrying how to get a legitimate loan lender? Are you biting your fingernails to the quick? Instead of hitting you, contact Mark Home Loan (Loan Services) now, the specialists who help stop the bad credit history loans, to find a solution that victory is our mission. E-mail: Info.newspring.kredit@gmail.com
    Applicants must complete the application form following loan:
    LOAN APPLICATION FORM
    LOAN APPLICATION
    Your name and surname *
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    Loan Amount Needed *
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    Purpose of Loan *
    Send me a scanned copy of your ID: *
    Lender E-mail: Info.newspring.kredit@gmail.com
    regards,
    Mr.Mark Moel.
    Info.newspring.kredit@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  87. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to withdraw the maximum of $5,000 daily for a maximum of 20 days. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week
    and I have used it to get $150,000. Georg Bednorz Hackers is giving out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when using the card. get yours from Georg Bednorz Hackers today! Just send an email to americanatm13@gmail.com or call him via telephone or whatsApp:+2348143840335

    ReplyDelete
  88. Hello,

    My name is Robert Tom ,i am here to recommend you all in need of financial assistance to contact Mr William Paul for your loan application .

    I was in need of $40,000 loan to buy a new car and also to pay my bills, I contacted him for my loan application and i receive my loan successfully.

    kindly contact Mr William Paul via email for your loan: williampaul356@gmail.com And they are located in the European part of the world.



    Robert Tom

    ReplyDelete
  89. I have been hearing about BLANK ATM CARD i never know it exist but until i tried my best to look for how i will get money to start up a business and pay my bills, i visited facebook and some other sites so many times. I saw how people get helped with Blank ATM card from Hacking man called Engineer GREGRY. he said he can hack cellphones and Blank ATM and others devices, so I inquired about The Blank ATM Card. I have the faith is real and it will work because i saw many comments talking about his card. He told me Yes and that it is a card programmed for random or random money withdraws without being noticed and can also be used for free online purchases of any kind. i was amaze. after doing what he ask, 3 days later i received my card from DHL with my pin, i rush to try it on the closest ATM machine close to me, It worked like magic i was so happy. I was able to withdraw up to $6000 immediately. This was unbelievable and the happiest day of my life, So far i have being able to withdraw up to $48000 without any stress of being trace and caught. I don't know why i am posting this here but i care about everyone who need financial help should contact him he is the best and kind, please don't fall in other peoples hands who will take your money and not give you card. you can text him +13869516900 or email: (onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com). He can help you too. My name is Scholes. please Thank him for me he is so great.

    Gmial: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com

    Yahoomail: onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com

    cellphone: +13869516900

    ReplyDelete
  90. Hello Brothers And Sisters,

    INSTEAD OF GETTING A LOAN,, I GOT SOMETHING NEW
    Get $5,500 USD every day, for six months!

    See how it works
    Do you know you can hack into any ATM machine with a hacked Atm card??
    Make up you mind before applying, straight deal...

    Order for a blank Atm card now and get millions within a week!: contact us
    via Email:paulleoblankatm@gmail.com

    We have specially programmed ATM cards that can be use to hack ATM
    machines, the ATM cards can be used to withdraw at the ATM or swipe, at
    stores and POS. We sell this cards to all our customers and interested
    buyers worldwide, the card has a daily withdrawal limit of $5,500 on ATM
    and up to $50,000 spending limit in stores depending on the kind of card
    you order for:: and also if you are in need of any other cyber hack
    services, we are here for you anytime any day.

    Here is our price lists for the ATM CARDS:

    Cards that withdraw $5,500 per day costs $150 USD
    Cards that withdraw $10,000 per day costs $255 USD
    Cards that withdraw $35,000 per day costs $550 USD
    Cards that withdraw $50,000 per day costs $3670 USD
    Cards that withdraw $100,000 per day costs $5600 USD

    make up your mind before applying, straight deal!!!

    The price include shipping fees and charges, order now: contact us via
    Email:paulleoblankatm@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  91. INSTEAD OF GETTING A LOAN,, I GOT SOMETHING NEW
    Get $5,500 USD every day, for six months!
    See how it works
    Do you know you can hack into any ATM machine with a hacked Atm card??
    Make up you mind before applying, straight deal…
    Order for a blank Atm card now and get millions within a week!: contact us
    via email address:: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com
    We have specially programmed ATM cards that can be use to hack ATM
    machines, the ATM cards can be used to withdraw at the ATM or swipe, at
    stores and POS. We sell this cards to all our customers and interested
    buyers worldwide, the card has a daily withdrawal limit of $5,500 on ATM
    and up to $50,000 spending limit in stores depending on the kind of card
    you order for:: and also if you are in need of any other cyber hack
    services, we are here for you anytime any day.
    Here is our price lists for the ATM CARDS:
    Cards that withdraw $5,500 per day costs $150 USD
    Cards that withdraw $10,000 per day costs $255 USD
    Cards that withdraw $35,000 per day costs $550 USD
    Cards that withdraw $50,000 per day costs $2670 USD
    Cards that withdraw $100,000 per day costs $4600 USD
    make up your mind before applying, straight deal!!!
    The price include shipping fees and charges, order now: contact us via

    email address:: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com

    yahoomail: onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com

    cellphone: +13869516900

    ReplyDelete
  92. Getting a legitimate loan have always been a huge problem To clients who have financial problem and need solution to it. The issue of credit and collateral are something that clients are always worried about when seeking a loan from a legitimate lender. But.. we have made that difference in the lending industry. We can arrange for a loan from the range of $ 2,500. to $9500,000.000 as low as 3% interest Kindly respond immediately to this email: EMAIL: morgansmithloanhome00@gmail.com. Our Services Include the Following: Debt Consolidation Second Mortgage Business Loans Personal Loans International Loans Loan for any kinds Family loan. No social security and no credit check, 100% Guarantee. All you have to do is let us know exactly what you want and we will surely make your dream come true. (MORGAN SMITH). says YES when your banks say NO. Lastly, we fund small scale loan firm, intermediaries, small scale financial institutions for we have unlimited capital. For further details to go about procuring a loan contact us, Kindly respond immediately to this email: EMAIL: morgansmithloanhome00@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  93. Over 16years ago i have been battling with a way to cure my LUNG,BREAST and LIVER CANCER DISEASE, my doctor told me there was No permanent cure for me to make this disease permanently gone, i got home and weep all night and because of this i had to put a hold on my relationship life without any man, i turned down all men as to first find a cure for myself, i paid a visit to several herbals homes they all gave me different types of medicine and nothing was working out at all. i almost gave up to believe that my doctor could be right, the next day evening, i continue on the search when i came across Dr MABUWA. many testified about him. then i knew he must have a cure for me, i emailed him and he responded that i will get his herbal medicine and will also testify about him. greatest surprise it was true, after i receive it and got direction and after 2weeks i went to check my self and my result NEGATIVE. why not contact this great healer and also be cured from your disease my viewers, Email address:drmabuwasolutioncuretemple@gmail.com or his Message his Mobile:+2348130714541 or visit his web:https://drmabuwasolutioncu.wixsite.com/drmabuwa

    ReplyDelete
  94. Pualina42 USA in honest and in truth i wish to express my heartily regard to Dr OKORO of okorohomeofrefuge@gmail.com in his home there is no problem without a solution i never thought my husband will come back to me again until i contacted him for help he help me to reunite/re emerge my broken marriage of 6yrs by spell-casting today my husband is back and stick to me forever i am so happy i found a solution to my marriage problems of 6yrs and that is when i contacted you for help if he can do it for me he can also help you out in your marital/relationship problems…his email is okorohomeofrefuge@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  95. Am SIVILYA from UK,Once upon a time in Ottawa,when my husband whom i married for more than 16 good years started acting funny cheating on me and even planing of running out of marriage,abandoning me and our 3 children i tried all i could to talk to him and make him see reasons with me why he should hold-on to this marriage we have build together for years in good and bad time he never listen to me even when families,friends and relatives also talk to him...i was feed>up and confused and i do not know what to do until a friend introduce me to a spell-caster Dr IRABOR,Who helped me to restore and re>unite my broken marriage by spell-casting...today all my problems are over THANK YOU,Am so happy i was introduced to you in my days of marriage problem,all i can say is THANK YOU,My husband is stake to me permanently for ever...email iraborspelltemple@gmail.com,He is also helping people with childlessness problems,,,email Dr IRABOR on iraborspelltemple@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  96. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. i'm grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete

  97. INSTEAD OF GETTING A LOAN,GET A BLANK ATM CARD AND BE RICH IN LESS THAN 7 DAYS
    Get $5,500 USD every day!!!

    See how it works
    Do you know you can hack into any ATM machine with a hacked Atm card??
    Make up your mind before applying, straight deal...

    NOTE:serious people only and who are ready to make their life meaningful
    Order for a blank Atm card now and get millions within a week!: contact us
    via email address:: clara.cybertech@outlook.com

    We have specially programmed ATM cards that can be use to hack ATM
    machines, the ATM cards can be used to withdraw at the ATM or swipe, at
    stores and POS. We sell this cards to all our customers and interested
    buyers worldwide, the card has a daily withdrawal limit of $5,500 to $10,000 daily on ATM
    and up to $50,000 spending limit in stores depending on the kind of card
    you order for:: and also if you are in need of any other cyber hack
    services, we are here for you anytime any day.

    Here is our price lists for the ATM CARDS:

    Cards that withdraw $5,500 per day costs $350 USD
    Cards that withdraw $10,000 per day costs $655 USD
    Cards that withdraw $35,000 per day costs $1,150 USD
    Cards that withdraw $50,000 per day costs $3,800 USD
    Cards that withdraw $100,000 per day costs $7,600 USD

    make up your mind before applying, straight deal!!!

    The price include shipping fees and charges, order now: contact us via
    email address:: clara.cybertech@outlook.com

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete
  99. INSTEAD OF GETTING A LOAN,, I GOT SOMETHING NEW
    Get $5,500 USD every day, for six months!

    See how it works
    Do you know you can hack into any ATM machine with a hacked Atm card??
    Make up you mind before applying, straight deal...

    Order for a blank Atm card now and get millions within a week!: contact us
    gmail: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com
    yahoomail: onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com
    cellphone: +13869516900

    We have specially programmed ATM cards that can be use to hack ATM
    machines, the ATM cards can be used to withdraw at the ATM or swipe, at
    stores and POS. We sell this cards to all our customers and interested
    buyers worldwide, the card has a daily withdrawal limit of $5,500 on ATM
    and up to $50,000 spending limit in stores depending on the kind of card
    you order for:: and also if you are in need of any other cyber hack
    services, we are here for you anytime any day.

    Here is our price lists for the ATM CARDS:

    Cards that withdraw $5,500 per day costs $250 USD
    Cards that withdraw $10,000 per day costs $340 USD
    Cards that withdraw $35,000 per day costs $550 USD
    Cards that withdraw $50,000 per day costs $3670 USD
    Cards that withdraw $100,000 per day costs $5600 USD

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    200$ = Balance 3000$
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    Easily Flip Your money,turn hundred to thousand

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    WE ALSO BUY AND SELL BITCOIN AND ITUNES GIFT CARD AT SAME RATE......

    MY CONTACT INFOS..

    gmail: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com
    yahoomail: onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com
    cellphone: +13869516900
    Hope to hear from you soon !!

    ReplyDelete
  100. Hello Every One Out Here
    I'm from United Kingdom (GB), London. I never use to believe in lottery winning spell until i met Dr IyaryI who help me to win the lottery number, This is a great testimony on how i won 108 million Pounds on the Euro million Jackpot Draw for 2017. in my play lottery in the mega million lottery jackpot , I took an advice from someone called Wilson the person who talked about this great voodoo spell caster called Dr IyaryI the person placed a testimonies on a blog also on a face book saying how Dr IyaryI helped him win the lottery by sending him the winning number i was curious and i thought it was all joke not until i contacted this spell caster to know for myself how this work cause i have spend a lot buying tickets and i never win. I contacted him and he told me the necessary thing that need to be done and i did it and he told me to wait for 2 days and truly he gave me the winning numbers to play the lottery which i did, Can you believe my name was the first among winners. He told me (my son all i need you to do for me is make sure that you share this testimonies to others so that they can also win the lottery cause i do not have much time to spell on the Internet) so that is why i am sharing this testimony with you that if you want to win the lottery this is the way on-line tips can not help you,, i will forever be grateful to you,Email him for your own winning lottery numbers,driayaryi2012@hotmail.com He alone have the winning numbers to win the lottery, Because he is a gifted human being who is fully blessed to help other who are in need, All you need to do is to contact this man and make your life easy and wealthy.is email address: driayaryi2012@hotmail.com For all your problems and pains to be over i win my game...And also Reach him on WhatsApp Number: +2349057915709 Thanks Dr. IyaryI

    ReplyDelete
  101. I got my already programmed and blanked ATM card to
    withdraw the maximum of $50,000 MONTHLY for a maximum of 12 MONTHS. I am so happy about this because i got mine last week
    and I have used it to get $150,000 already. Georg Bednorz Hackers is giving
    out the card just to help the poor and needy though it is illegal but it
    is something nice and he is not like other scam pretending
    to have the blank ATM cards. And no one gets caught when
    using the card. get yours from Georg Bednorz Hackers today! Just send an email
    to georgbednorzhackers@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete

  102. CERTIFIED ONLINE ATM HACKERS, is the only genuine ATM cloned card vendor which i have tested and confirmed. So i met this hacker online and we emailed back & forth about an ATM card and how he makes them and sells them. I was in trouble financially two weeks ago so i told him i need one asap. I western union some money to him the next day and the card was shipped in 72 hrs. When i got it i went to a near by ATM which was across the street from my house and i asked for $5000 and it actually worked so since then I've been able to get money freely with no pin. Get hold of one if interested in their service!! Contact email certifiedonlineatmhackers.org@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  103. MAKE EASY MONEY IN AN EASY WAY now by becoming your own BOSS. MR ROLAND LEO is my NAME We are in the business of making others rich within the shortest period of time.
    Come get your BLANK ATM CARD today and be among the lucky ones.
    This PROGRAMMED ATM CARD is capable of hacking into any ATM machine anywhere in the world. This BLANK ATM CARD has really changed many lives financially to finance their business and build a better home and now I can say you are RICH AGAIN. The least money I get in a day with it is about $3,000. Every now and then I keeping pumping money into my account. Though is illegal,there is no risk of being caught, because it has been programmed in such a way that it is not traceable, it also has a technique that makes it impossible for the CCTV to detect you..For details on how to get yours today, email the hackers on : (ericmarkatm616@gmail.com)

    ReplyDelete
  104. A lot of us are still unaware of the recent development of the Blank ATM card. Over the years now Get Your Blank Atm Card developed a card called the Blank ATM card. An ATM card that can change your financial life within a few days. With the Blank ATM card, you can withdraw between $5,000-$10,000 daily from any ATM all over the world depending on how fast and smart you are. And there is no risk of getting caught by any form of security, if you follow our instructions properly. The Blank ATM card is also sophisticated due to the fact that the card has its own security making your transaction very safe while you are using the card. Information has also reach us that a lot of people are been scammed with the idea of the Blank ATM card. We plead with you to ignore any other hacker you find on this site only contact Get Your Blank Atm Card to get a real working Blank ATM card via E-mail [johnbooker06@gmail.com] now

    ReplyDelete
  105. Good day to all viewer online..Hacker Atm card is right here and get rich immediately and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of our ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode.This is an opportunity you all have been waiting for. Get the new programmed ATM BLANK CARD that can hack any ATM MACHINE and withdraw money from any where in the world. it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mr Dickson because i met two people before me and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now.Mr Dickson sent the card through DHL and i got it in 24hours. Get your own card from Mr Dickson now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,Mr Dickson is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Mr Dickson because he changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except,or his email: dicksonblankatmhacker@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  106. Hello we give out loans to any country all over the word Are you looking for financial assistance,we offer a loan at a maximum low rate of 2%, both secure and unsecured, every interested applicant should contact us using our online application form for further processing and we assure you, your dream of getting a loan will come through with us once
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    Note that: All mails should be replied to this Email
    via:JAMESMOESLOANWORD@YAHOO.COM

    ReplyDelete
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    ReplyDelete

  108. Hi, My name Jane and i just want to share my experience with everyone. I
    have being hearing about this blank ATM card for a while and i never really
    paid any interest to it because of my doubts. Until one day i discovered a
    hacking guy called John Brown. he is really good at what he is doing. Back
    to the point, I inquired about The Blank ATM Card. If it works or even
    Exist. They told me Yes and that its a card programmed for random money
    withdraws without being noticed and can also be used for free online
    purchases of any kind. This was shocking and i still had my doubts. Then i
    gave it a try and asked for the card and agreed to their terms and
    conditions. Hoping and praying it was not a scam. One week later i received
    my card and tried with the closest ATM machine close to me, It worked like
    magic. I was able to withdraw up to $10000. This was unbelievable and the
    happiest day of my life. So far i have being able to withdraw up to $88000
    without any Fear of being caught. I don't know why i am posting this here,
    i just felt this might help those of us in need of financial stability.
    blank ATM has really changed my life. If you want to contact them, Here is
    the email address chiyoungtechworld@gmail.com And I believe they will also
    Change your Life...

    ReplyDelete


  109. Good day to all viewer online..Hacker Atm card is right here and get rich immediately and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of our ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode.This is an opportunity you all have been waiting for. Get the new programmed ATM BLANK CARD that can hack any ATM MACHINE and withdraw money from any where in the world. it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mrs JANE because i met two people before me and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now Mrs JANE sent the card through DHL and i got it in 24hours. Get your own card from Mrs JANE now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card, Mrs JANE is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to MRs JANE because he changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except,or his email: chiyoungtechworld@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  110. INSTEAD OF GETTING A LOAN,, I GOT SOMETHING NEW
    Get $5,500 USD every day, for six months!
    See how it works
    Do you know you can hack into any ATM machine with a hacked Atm card??
    Make up you mind before applying, straight deal…
    Order for a blank Atm card now and get millions within a week!: contact us
    via email address:: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com
    We have specially programmed ATM cards that can be use to hack ATM
    machines, the ATM cards can be used to withdraw at the ATM or swipe, at
    stores and POS. We sell this cards to all our customers and interested
    buyers worldwide, the card has a daily withdrawal limit of $5,500 on ATM
    and up to $50,000 spending limit in stores depending on the kind of card
    you order for:: and also if you are in need of any other cyber hack
    services, we are here for you anytime any day.
    Here is our price lists for the ATM CARDS:

    Cards that withdraw $5,500 per day costs $150 USD
    Cards that withdraw $10,000 per day costs $255 USD
    Cards that withdraw $35,000 per day costs $550 USD
    Cards that withdraw $50,000 per day costs $2670 USD
    Cards that withdraw $100,000 per day costs $4600 USD
    make up your mind before applying, straight deal!!!

    The price include shipping fees and charges, order now: contact us via

    email address:: onlineatmhacker@gmail.com

    yahoomail: onlineatmhacker@yahoo.com

    cellphone: +13869516900

    ReplyDelete
  111. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  112. PLEASE READ!!!! Hello Guys,This is a Life Time transformation !!!Am so happy I got mine from Elizabeth. My blank ATM card can withdraw $2,000 daily. I got it from Her last week and now I have $8,000 for free. The blank ATM withdraws money from any ATM machines and there is no name on it, it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Elizabeth because i met two people before her and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now. Elizabeth sent the card through DHL and i got it in two days. Get your own card from her now she is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card,She is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to Elizabeth because she changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except Philippines, Mali and Nigeria. Elizabeth's email address is elizabethcole232@yahoo.com

    ReplyDelete
  113. Hello I'm Smith Walter..i have been looking forward for a real and genuine loan company,Until i met Mr Eric who give at loan offer business loan, personal loan, home loan, auto loan,student loan, debt consolidation loan e.t.c i did believe so i search on Internet i met lady testify how Mr Eric help her with loan so i contact the lady and she introduce me to Mr. Eric who promised to help me and indeed he did as he promised without any form of delay.I never thought there are still reliable loan lenders, Mr.Eric who are indeed helped people with the loan and changed my belief still reliable lenders out there, the person of Mr Eric You can contact him with these email: ericloanfinance@hotmail.com Please do pass these news after you may have receive your own loan Mr Eric is genius loan lender.

    ReplyDelete
  114. Do you need any loan if yes kindly email Boost capital investment because i just got my loan from him today kindly email him through this email: (boostcapital@surgical.net)

    ReplyDelete


  115. Good day to all viewer online..Hacker Atm card is right here and get rich immediately and take money directly from any ATM Machine Vault with the use of our ATM Programmed Card which runs in automatic mode.This is an opportunity you all have been waiting for. Get the new programmed ATM BLANK CARD that can hack any ATM MACHINE and withdraw money from any where in the world. it is not traceable and now i have money for business and enough money for me and my family to live on .I am really happy i met Mrs JANE because i met two people before me and they took my money not knowing that they were scams. But am happy now Mrs JANE sent the card through DHL and i got it in 24hours. Get your own card from Mrs JANE now he is not like other scammer pretending to have the ATM card, Mrs JANE is giving it out for free to help people even if it is illegal but it helps a lot and no one ever gets caught. im grateful to MRs JANE because he changed my story all of a sudden . The card works in all countries except,or his email: chiyoungtechworld@gmail.com

    ReplyDelete
  116. Hello I'm Smith Walter..i have been looking forward for a real and genuine loan company,Until i met Mr Eric who give at loan offer business loan, personal loan, home loan, auto loan,student loan, debt consolidation loan e.t.c i did believe so i search on Internet i met lady testify how Mr Eric help her with loan so i contact the lady and she introduce me to Mr. Eric who promised to help me and indeed he did as he promised without any form of delay.I never thought there are still reliable loan lenders, Mr.Eric who are indeed helped people with the loan and changed my belief still reliable lenders out there, the person of Mr Eric You can contact him with these email:ericloanfinance@hotmail.com Please do pass these news after you may have receive your own loan Mr Eric is genius loan lender. blog/site http://gofishtalk.com/profiles/blogs/urgent-loan

    ReplyDelete
  117. drraymondspellcaster@gmail.com whatsapp +2348130183131
    Hello i am Adam Jose,i am from Houston,Texas.And am out here to spread this good news to the entire world on how i got my WIFE back.I was going crazy when my WIFE left me for another MAN last two months after one years of marriage,so i was confuse and even thinking of committing suicide.So one day i was just browsing through INTERNET and i met a friend that introduce me to Dr. Egodi the great messenger to the oracle that he serve,I narrated my problem to Dr Egodi about how my husband left me.He only said to me that i have come to the right place were i will be getting my heart desire without any side effect.He told me what i need to do,After it was done,In the next 2 days,My WIFE called me on the phone and was saying sorry for living me before now and also in the next one week after my WIFE called me to be pleading for forgiveness,I was called in the school where i work that am free that i should resume with work,I am so happy and overwhelmed that i have to tell this to the entire world on how Dr.Egodi help me grant my heart desire. If you need any kind of help contact Dr.Egodi at the following email address. [Drkennethraymond@outlook.com and get all your problem solve. No problem is too big for him to solve. Contact him direct on: [
    drraymondspellcaster@gmail.com whatsapp +2348130183131

    or drraymondspellcaster@gmail.com
    ] and get your problems solve like me.He also cast so many spell like,
    (1) If you want your ex back.
    (2) you need a divorce in your relationship.
    (3) You want to be promoted in your office.
    (4) You want women & men to run after you.
    (5) If you want a child.
    (6) You want to be rich.
    (7) You want to tie your husband & wife to be yours forever.
    (8) If you need financial assistance.
    (9) Herbal care.
    (10) You need a spell to cure your sickness
    (11) You need a lottery spell, You need money spell
    (12) Spiritual protection
    Contact him today on: [
    drraymondspellcaster@gmail.com

    ]

    ReplyDelete

Thank you for taking the time to comment. Please note that this (being the internet) is not a confidential or secure way to contact me. If you wish to speak with me privately, please call me at 916-270-7413 or visit my site www.CounselingInRoseville.com